Beginning in the early 1930’s, the United States faced the most dismal economic situation it had ever encountered. The country had plunged into a recession that had a global reach and left millions without jobs. The coming of the Roosevelt administration saw a new attitude about the role of the Federal Government in ensuring the economic vitality of the country begin to emerge in the mind of the public. Citizens began to look to the presidency for the help that they so urgently needed when it came to finding work that was so desperately necessary for the very survival of their families. One important part of President Roosevelt’s multifaceted plan for restoring the economic well-being of the country was a series of programs ran by the Federal Government that was intended to put out of work individuals back to work and to put an influx of currency into the economy. This program is known as the Works Project Administration, or WPA as it is commonly referred to. In the WPA, individuals were hired to do a variety of jobs that could range anywhere from environmental cleanup, to serving as a writer, and many jobs in between. One program in the WPA was the Federal Writer’s Project that hired out of work writers to perform various tasks that would make use of their skills as writers. Many writers were hired in the South to interview former slaves who then still resided in the south where they were once captive laborers. These writers questioned slaves about their experience with slavery and their views on the brutal institution. Slaves who agreed to be interviewed shared a first hand account of what daily life as a slave was like. Much can be learned about slavery from studying these interviews from slaves that provide this first hand knowledge that would have been lost forever had the slaves never been interviewed and their thoughts never recorded. But the really interesting study that can be administered from this interaction between middle or upper class whites and the generally lower class black subjects they interviewed is that the slave narratives of the Federal Writer’s project can help to shed some light on what life was like for former slaves during the 1930’s, with all the burdens that accompany the era, including Jim Crow laws and the Great Depression. In these interviews we can see the good and the bad of race relations and attempt to better understand the very important issue of race that still troubles our country today. With all the turmoil in the 1930’s, it is a very good time to study race relations and by looking at issues of class and gender and how this all came into play in the WPA Federal Writer’s Project. By studying these factors can better learn about the race relations of the time and the effects of the Great Depression on these elderly former slaves, and we can also see the contrast between the generally well-off interviewer and the poverty stricken, elderly slaves.
In addition to the chaos created by the depression was the ongoing race problem the country faced. This race problem plagued the entire country, but was most pronounced in the Southeastern United States. Slavery had ended almost seventy years before the depression, but racism was still a very real problem. Whites and blacks still lived in separate worlds even while living in the same geographical area. Slavery was now outlawed, but blacks were still subjects to the more powerful white race. Blacks had suffrage, but little other power, and even the right to vote was infringed upon often and in many ways. Segregation was everywhere, from education to restaurants, and blacks were often treated as second class citizens. Although blacks were now paid for their labor, the increase in pay was insignificant, and the great majority of blacks, especially during the Great Depression, lived in poverty. But the depression alone did not cause this poverty. Studying the interviews of former slaves from the Federal Writers Project can show us that while the Great Depression was difficult for people of all races, in the segregated south, because of its deep-seated racism, the biggest problem facing blacks was poverty exacerbated by white racism in hiring practices and can also show the fear that blacks had of white violence.
A specific writer/interviewer will be studied in this paper along with her interviewee and the resulting product of their collaboration. Mrs. Ruth H. Sanford (March 2, 1983-December 10, 1978) of Macon, Georgia, which is in Bibb County, was apparently a writer and possibly a homemaker who lived in a suburb of Macon known as Vineville. Mrs. Sanford was about 43 at the time she interviewed a slave for the Federal Writer’s Project. No job other than her position with the Federal Writer’s Project can be found on record for Mrs. Sanford, but her husband Paul served as a junior salesman for Dixie Dairies in Macon during the time Mrs. Sanford was employed by the Federal Writer’s Project. Mr. Sanford was 46 at the time of the 1930 census. Mr. and Mrs. Sanford had two kids, one was 13 and another was 8 at the time of the 1930 census, putting them about 6 years older each during the time of Mrs. Sanford’s interview of former slave Susan Matthews. After their marriage, Paul and Ruth Sanford lived in Vineville on Corbin Avenue for their entire lives together until Paul’s death. Mrs. Sanford was a member of the Vineville United Methodist Church and according to her obituary was originally born and educated in Sumter County, but later moved to Macon where she lived all of her life. According to earlier city directories, Mr. Sanford was a student in the early 1920’s. Therefore, both Mr. and Mrs. Sanford have a least some formal education. Mr. Sanford also has managed to secure a job even during the volatile depression. With all of this information, one can make certain assumptions about Mrs. Sanford and her family. It can be assumed that they are a typical middle class family because of their educational background, the fact that they reside in a suburban neighborhood, and because of Mr. Sanford’s occupation, which would not make him rich, but would probably give him a very stable source of income in a time when many others were struggling for the basic necessities. This steady income and educational background also probably helped Mrs. Sanford a great deal in securing a position with the Federal Writer’s Project, although it is unclear what ultimately propelled her to this position.1 2 3
Although her exact occupation could not be ascertained, it is without a doubt that Mrs. Sanford was at least a middle class woman, considering both her husband’s occupation, and the typical occupations of those who were hired to interview slaves during the Great Depression. These individuals were often professionals held in high esteem and had good connections. They were generally middle or upper class and were very educated. This is very evident in Mrs. Sanford’s writing, which is very well organized and uses very descriptive adjectives that really make it easy to picture the poverty stricken, broken old home that belongs to Susan Matthews. Mrs. Sanford’s life was a sharp contrast to the life of Susan Matthews.
As a white married couple, Paul and Ruth Sanford at least had a good chance to get a job during the Great Depression. On the other hand, Susan Matthews, the elderly slave woman interviewed by Mrs. Sanford, was a poor old black woman trying to survive in the Great Depression in the middle of the Jim Crow South. Like most elderly blacks of the time, she struggles against her own physical inability to work, the down economic times, and the prevailing racism of the region in her fight for basic survival. She was described as a large woman, over six feet tall and weighing close to two-hundred pounds according to Mrs. Sanford. She was obviously old; she was 84 at the time of the interview. She is also single and has never married, and receives eight dollars a month from the government for basic subsistence. Mrs. Sanford describes Susan Matthews as an intelligent woman, which is a surprising statement coming from a suburban white woman about an elderly, black, and uneducated former slave. Susan Matthews’ hat is described as misshapen, her shoes ragged, and her dress faded. This all seems to vividly describe Mrs. Matthew’s poverty. Despite her living conditions, Mrs. Matthew’s seems to be a very happy woman. According to Mrs. Sanford, Mrs. Matthews is very upbeat and seems to enjoy doing the interviews. Mrs. Sanford seems to very accurately record the vernacular of Mrs. Matthews as it probably would have been at that time, bringing the broken language to life in the narrative. Mrs. Matthews very much liked the family who she served as a slave, and she describes them as poor white people who only had a few slaves, all of which were biological family of Mrs. Matthews. Mrs. Matthews tells Mrs. Sanford that her family treated her very well, giving her the same meals eaten by the family that owns her, giving her a toy to play with, and the masters even helped the slaves of the house with their work. At one point it is obvious, although it seems to have been edited out, that Mrs. Sanford asks Mrs. Matthews to tell her about when the Union army comes near the house which she live in based on her response. Mrs. Matthews does this and seems to recall this incident with great humor. Another question asked by Mrs. Sanford is whether Mrs. Matthews preferred freedom or slavery, which Mrs. Matthews respond by saying that although freedom was preferable years earlier, she now missed the days of slavery when she had someone to take care of her, because now she was having a hard time getting by.4
It is questionable how credible Susan Matthew’s account really is. Her portrayal of slavery seems to be way too rosy considering the evidence to the contrary that most southern slave owners were not so benevolent. There are a host of reasons why the slave narratives are often doubted by scholars as accurate descriptions of slavery, but one struck me as an especially interesting explanation of this case is poverty, in fact the extreme poverty brought on by the depression. According to Stephanie Shaw, slaves interviewed often told WPA worker’s what they thought the interviewer wanted to hear in order to insure their continued compensation for their stories. This throws an interesting wrinkle into the interaction between the interviewer and the interviewee in the slave narratives. Shaw says that with all these problems, using the slave narratives to study slavery may not be a very useful tool. However, as stated earlier, they can serve to shed some light on the major issue of the day during the interviews, the Great Depression, and what it was like living in the segregated south during this time. Shaw points out that one common sentiment held by many slaves that can be found throughout the slave narratives is that they were better off as slaves than as free people during the depression. Susan Matthews says as much when Ruth Sanford asks her if she preferred freedom to slavery, telling Mrs. Sanford that she was having serious trouble taking care of herself at her old age during the depression. Shaw says that blacks often wanted for the days of slavery when the elderly slaves were cared for by their masters, because now no one was obligated to take care of them, and anyone who might do it out of the goodness of their hearts was unable to, because they themselves were most likely having difficulty making ends meet. Widespread throughout the slave narratives were horrific examples of the extremes of poverty former slaves faced during the 1930’s. This freedom to slavery comparison was a question that the administrators of the Federal Writer’s Program wanted asked of all slaves, and slaves gave varying answers. But all of their answers seemed to suggest that, even if they did not feel they were necessarily better off as slaves, they were just as bad off now free in the Great Depression where they were elderly and unable to care for themselves. It was not that they did not want freedom, but this freedom seemed like to great of a price to bear. While reminiscing about the days when she had someone to care for her as a slave, Mrs. Matthews says that she has no one to take care of her and she wished that she still belonged to someone that would. Not having anyone take care of them was a common problem for many former slaves. Also, compounding the problem of the depression for former slaves was white racism. Even if a job came available, blacks were usually unable to get it because of their race. During this time of economic crisis, few Southern whites were going to let a job go to a black person when they themselves were so desperate for employment. Only the most well connected blacks were able to get jobs.5
The fact that Mrs. Matthews was a woman also may have contributed to her poverty. Blacks faced a natural disadvantage, especially during the depression, but black women faced additional challenges. Black men had better access to specific kinds of jobs before the depression, and these jobs often made it somewhat easier for them to survive during the depression, however most still suffered much like the women. The natural strength of men and tendency to be associated with certain jobs because of the masculine connotations that are attached to the job probably contribute to this fact. Some black men who were confederate veterans even received pensions for their service. Women could claim no such advantage. Susan Matthews did have work at one time, but was no longer able to perform it because of old age and failing health. In contrast, some capable blacks during the depression were fired because of their age, even if they were still capable workers. Mrs. Matthews does not tell us what her occupation was before the depression hit and she also has become physically unable to work at this point in her life. But by looking at other occupations of elderly black women in this time, we can assume she may have washed clothes, the most common occupation for elderly black women, made clothes, and also ironing and other household chores for white people. Some black men in the south served as tenant farmers along with their families. They were very often treated unfairly by the landowners who did not hold up their ends of the deal. But at least these men and their families were making some kind of income. For an elderly black woman with no husband, like Mrs. Matthews, this line of work was also not an option, and her continued reliance on her insufficient government check would have made it very tough for her to get by.6 7
Life for an elderly black woman in Macon, Georgia in the 1930’s would have probably included those previously mentioned domestic service jobs. Of all black workers in the South, 66.5% worked in agriculture and domestic service. This left few options for women unable to do the agricultural labor. Most whites during this time did not even attempt to hide the fact that blacks would be paid lesser wages for the same jobs, it was an open policy. If an employer was forced to reduce the size of his workforce, the black workers would be the first ones to go. Not only did unemployed blacks have a hard getting jobs of any kind because they were black, many whites took an active role in ensuring that blacks who did have jobs during the Great Depression lost the jobs they already had. This fear that whites had that blacks would take their already sparsely available jobs even drove whites to take action against the job security of blacks, including one incident at an Atlanta hotel. In Atlanta one day in the 1930’s at one of Atlanta’s most prominent hotels, all of the black busboys were arrested on a phony rape charge. When they were finally released, they came back but found that there jobs were no longer there, they had been taken by whites. This was not an isolated incident, actions like this were common. With their inherent sense of superiority, whites could simply not fathom the idea of blacks taking their jobs when there were so few to go around.8
Finally, as noted earlier, Susan Matthews had nothing but good things to say about slave life, and seem to be very cooperative and forthcoming about every question asked. She refused to say anything negative about white people, even those who held her captive. She mentioned no brutality towards other slaves that she knew during her time as a slave, and did not complain about the racist treatment she most certainly faced during the era that she lived in during the interviews. This attitude was not unique to Mrs. Matthews, in fact many slaves seem to avoid controversy during the interviews with white people. This may be significant because, according to John Blassingame, this acquiescence and excessive praise of white people may show the fear held by blacks in the South because of white racism and their dependence on whites for their survival. Indeed, as Blassingame points out, many of these interviewers were direct, and very close ancestors of former slaveholders, maybe even the slaveholder who owned the slave that they were interviewing! Few slaves would say anything in the interviews that might upset whites, often quite the contrary; they would go out of their way to please their white interviewer because of fear of white retribution and because of their economic dependence on whites. Lynching, murders, and false imprisonment were all too common punishments faced by blacks for doing things, anything, that whites deemed inappropriate for blacks in Southern society.9
The Slave Narrative interviews conducted by the Federal Writer’s can ironically teach us just as much about the times in which they are conducted in as they can tell us about slavery. Considering all of their possible flaws, studying the effects of the Great Depression and Jim Crow era racism on black southerners may be the only desirable use for the slave narratives. It is very compelling to study how the already deeply embedded racism in the South worked to push blacks even deeper into poverty than they would have already been when the economic catastrophe of the Great Depression hit. Throughout the slave narratives, former slaves long for better days, a time before the Great Depression but after slavery, when more jobs meant they would possess at least some independence from whites, and face, to at least a somewhat lesser degree, the consequences from racism than compared to a time when they where fighting whites for jobs, a fight they would virtually always lose. The slave narratives also tell us much by what they do not say. The former slaves rarely say anything derogatory about whites in many of the narratives, probably because of fear from white retribution. With frequent lynching and other violence against blacks, they could not be too careful about what they said. Ruth Sanford and Susan Matthews had very little in common with each other when they sat on that porch together that day and proceeded to conduct their interview. They may have seemed to have spoken as equals, but they were not. They may have even been friends and shared a mutual respect for each other, but they were not equals. One would return to her comfortable suburban home, not worrying about where her next meal would come from. The other would stay in her broken shack, constantly wondering to herself how she would continue to merely survive. The slave narratives can tell us definitively about race relations during this era in Southern history; they were not good at all, no matter how cordial the slave interviews themselves semed to be.
1. R.L. Polk and Co. Publishers, Macon City Directory. (Richmond) : 1922, 1978, 1940.
2. 1930 Manuscript Census; Bibb County, Georgia.
3. (Macon News and Telegraph [Macon] , 10 December 1978).
4. American Memory, Born in Slavery: Slave Narratives from the Federal Writers Project, 1936-1938. (Washington D.C. : The Library of Congress, 2001) , http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/snhtml/snhome.html.
5. Stephanie J. Shaw, "Using the WPA Ex-Slave Narratives to Study the Impact of the Great Depression," Journal of Southern History, Vol. 69 No. 3 (Aug 2003) : 623-631
6. Shaw, 637-645
7. David L. Carlton and Peter A. Cocanis, Confronting Southern Poverty in the Great Depression. Boston: Bedford/St. Martin’s, 1996. 98-101.
8. Michael S. Holmes, “The Blue Eagle As Jim Crow Bird: The NRA and Georgia’s Black Workers” The Journal of Negro History, Vol. 57, No. 3. (July 1972) : 276-279.
9.
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